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	<title>Comments on: Logical Positivism 101</title>
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	<description>That which does not kill us has made its last mistake</description>
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		<title>By: Rev. Bob</title>
		<link>http://blog.crispen.org/logical-positivism-101/comment-page-1/#comment-273</link>
		<dc:creator>Rev. Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 00:03:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.crispen.org/?p=10#comment-273</guid>
		<description>Crikey! I think I nicked the idea of pixies from Richard Dawkins!

It&#039;s not like he&#039;s famous or anything!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Crikey! I think I nicked the idea of pixies from Richard Dawkins!</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not like he&#8217;s famous or anything!</p>
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		<title>By: Rev. Bob</title>
		<link>http://blog.crispen.org/logical-positivism-101/comment-page-1/#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator>Rev. Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 12:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks, Tim.

Actually, the  &quot;greater  point&quot; is that visual statistics are rhe next big thing in epistemology or perhaps a modern successor to  epistemology and you should buy his analysis and visualization tool.  I sympathize with the notion of fact-based knowing. And I&#039;m suspicious of two things: (a) no matter how intently you peer through a microscope at a cell, you won&#039;t see a theory of biology written on the organelles; and (b) to what extent is visualization knowing.

As to &quot;ways of knowing,&quot; I&#039;m convinced that &quot;alternative ways of knowing&quot; really are alternatives to knowing in the sense that &quot;alternative medicine&quot; is an  alternative to medicine: it doesn&#039;t make you better, bur at best makes you &lt;em&gt;feel&lt;/em&gt;  better. The old acid test is, if alternative medicine can cure an amputation and stop your  bleeding, I might pay attention to it.

 So therefore I have great doubts that  what you get from visual statistics is actual knowing. You&#039;ll notice that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/92&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the demo  Hans  Rosling did at TED &lt;/a&gt;was accompanied by a narrative.  But  visual statistics  is a pretty good step toward knowing. The narrative itself (which refers back to the facts and the visual structures derived from the facts)   is  what you need if you want to make policy and maybe understand the way the world works.

I&#039;m concerned with the extent to which Malcolm X spoke the truth in the link I posted on another topic.   Surely it was his perception of truth, but then  conservative Christians &lt;em&gt;perceive&lt;/em&gt; themselves as besieged  and persecuted, while they  control all 3 branches of government and much of commerce,  and  unfactual  belief itself is given an  unwarranted respect and acceptance by the  channels through which most of us perceive  political reality.

There really aren&#039;t  alternative ways of knowing, but the truth is  that actors and their perceptions and  interests are part of the data.

You can&#039;t look through a microscope   and see policies either. But you need to examine perceptions and constructions of the facts  in your data, wholly outside the realm of acknowledging power.  Denying that individual and institutionalized racism and sexism and homophobia exist today  is mostly  a reflection of one&#039;s own belief-based construction of the facts.  Well, perhaps Tweety didn&#039;t say &quot;regular people&quot; when he meant white people. And Lawrence King&#039;s parents will be delighted to know he&#039;s still alive.  But saying that Christians are being massively  persecuted today and that the earth was created 6,000 years ago is just stupid. And (stealing this question from a better writer) if we  really do live in a post-feminist society, when was the feminist society? I must have  missed it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Tim.</p>
<p>Actually, the  &#8220;greater  point&#8221; is that visual statistics are rhe next big thing in epistemology or perhaps a modern successor to  epistemology and you should buy his analysis and visualization tool.  I sympathize with the notion of fact-based knowing. And I&#8217;m suspicious of two things: (a) no matter how intently you peer through a microscope at a cell, you won&#8217;t see a theory of biology written on the organelles; and (b) to what extent is visualization knowing.</p>
<p>As to &#8220;ways of knowing,&#8221; I&#8217;m convinced that &#8220;alternative ways of knowing&#8221; really are alternatives to knowing in the sense that &#8220;alternative medicine&#8221; is an  alternative to medicine: it doesn&#8217;t make you better, bur at best makes you <em>feel</em>  better. The old acid test is, if alternative medicine can cure an amputation and stop your  bleeding, I might pay attention to it.</p>
<p> So therefore I have great doubts that  what you get from visual statistics is actual knowing. You&#8217;ll notice that <a href="http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/92" rel="nofollow">the demo  Hans  Rosling did at TED </a>was accompanied by a narrative.  But  visual statistics  is a pretty good step toward knowing. The narrative itself (which refers back to the facts and the visual structures derived from the facts)   is  what you need if you want to make policy and maybe understand the way the world works.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m concerned with the extent to which Malcolm X spoke the truth in the link I posted on another topic.   Surely it was his perception of truth, but then  conservative Christians <em>perceive</em> themselves as besieged  and persecuted, while they  control all 3 branches of government and much of commerce,  and  unfactual  belief itself is given an  unwarranted respect and acceptance by the  channels through which most of us perceive  political reality.</p>
<p>There really aren&#8217;t  alternative ways of knowing, but the truth is  that actors and their perceptions and  interests are part of the data.</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t look through a microscope   and see policies either. But you need to examine perceptions and constructions of the facts  in your data, wholly outside the realm of acknowledging power.  Denying that individual and institutionalized racism and sexism and homophobia exist today  is mostly  a reflection of one&#8217;s own belief-based construction of the facts.  Well, perhaps Tweety didn&#8217;t say &#8220;regular people&#8221; when he meant white people. And Lawrence King&#8217;s parents will be delighted to know he&#8217;s still alive.  But saying that Christians are being massively  persecuted today and that the earth was created 6,000 years ago is just stupid. And (stealing this question from a better writer) if we  really do live in a post-feminist society, when was the feminist society? I must have  missed it</p>
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		<title>By: tim</title>
		<link>http://blog.crispen.org/logical-positivism-101/comment-page-1/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 02:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;I don’t think he he’s a crank.... a little skepticism is always appropriate.... why would you take my word that he got it mostly right?&lt;/i&gt;

I just did a little quick browsing.  The site is slick enough.  But to be sure, you&#039;ve got the thing summed up neatly at the end.  &lt;i&gt;mostly right&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s plenty truthy.  Suffering from the need to make a neat narrative out of a messy landscape of history.  Sampling just a couple of bits I know something about, I find that he has the outline of the thing &quot;mostly right&quot; but the details aren&#039;t always so.

Does it matter?  Probably not if you are inclined already toward sympathy with his &quot;greater point.&quot;  And probably not if you are inclined already against him.  It only really matters, I suppose, if you are new to it all and the truth matters.

There&#039;s something in here, too, that&#039;s an echo of a long and still incomplete entry I started about narrative and knowing.  Maybe I&#039;ll try to polish that up, now that the site is stabilizing again.  (I miss the old look, but the new look is snazzy.  Haven&#039;t tried it on a mobile yet - something to keep you busy, Bob, if you start to feel like this is done.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I don’t think he he’s a crank&#8230;. a little skepticism is always appropriate&#8230;. why would you take my word that he got it mostly right?</i></p>
<p>I just did a little quick browsing.  The site is slick enough.  But to be sure, you&#8217;ve got the thing summed up neatly at the end.  <i>mostly right</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s plenty truthy.  Suffering from the need to make a neat narrative out of a messy landscape of history.  Sampling just a couple of bits I know something about, I find that he has the outline of the thing &#8220;mostly right&#8221; but the details aren&#8217;t always so.</p>
<p>Does it matter?  Probably not if you are inclined already toward sympathy with his &#8220;greater point.&#8221;  And probably not if you are inclined already against him.  It only really matters, I suppose, if you are new to it all and the truth matters.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s something in here, too, that&#8217;s an echo of a long and still incomplete entry I started about narrative and knowing.  Maybe I&#8217;ll try to polish that up, now that the site is stabilizing again.  (I miss the old look, but the new look is snazzy.  Haven&#8217;t tried it on a mobile yet &#8211; something to keep you busy, Bob, if you start to feel like this is done.)</p>
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